Talk:German (studies)

I have to admit that I have only the barest grasp on the mechnaics of Wik (and I can rarely find or understand the "instructions." STill, I want to work on the project. That's why the funny title above. I filled in a new name, but "newname" is what I got here. Go figure. Any-way, as I have written before (see below), Germanistics is a lousy name, since it is hardly ever used, being an ganglicization of Germanistiks not used by major German departments in the U.K. or the U.S. German Language and Literature and German Studies are both more common, as are German and Germanic Languages and Literatures (both probably inappropriate for our article). Few non-Germans would think to look under "Germanistics."

Translation

I just spent over an hour translating and correcting/commenting on the whole German version. I put it hereon editing talk for others to clean up. Instead it's gone. Kdammers 2 July 2005 09:15 (UTC)

I'll try it again, but I'm not translating the whole thing again at one fell swoop. The way I'll do it is paste it here (editng talk) and I and others can gradually translate it if it doesn't disappear. Kdammers 4 July 2005 08:23 (UTC) Some of the content is not right on, so it should be changed before or after translation. Comments are |thus.| In addition, some additional material should be added for non-German-speakers (e.g., re Hochdeutsch).

Well, I see my change have disappeared again! "Sysiphos." Kdammers 04:05, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good work translating this page. Sorry you lost earlier versions, sometimes the software goes to preview even after you hit the save button, in the past I know that this has caused content to be lost. I have run through the version on this talk page and cleaned up some writing and adapted it to standard en.wiki formatting. Please look through it to make sure I did not change the meaning anywhere. As to the name, Germanistics does get some hits in English, certainly more than "German Language and Literature Studies" and "German studies" refers to a broader field fo study. For now I think Germanistics is an alright title, though others should be given consideration. English scholars seem to use "Germanistik" a lot. - SimonP 13:45, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

- Thanks for working it over. There are a few things to change, but I'll have to do that later. (The links with-out URLS are C&Ps from the German site.) I really feel pretty strongly AGAINST using 'germanistics.' By search with Yahoo, GL&L had 43K hits, whereas 'Germanistics' had <500. Also, take a look at US & UK German depts. 'Germanistics' is not in Random House's big dict., nor in online dicts. GL&L is good but awkward, GL&L studies is easier on the grammar and meaning but really long-winded. GS is often - but not always - and surely by implication broader (tho' a number of depts. do use it.

Germanistics |This is not a standard term in English. The title should be some-thing else, e.g., German Language and Literature or German Studies |

G*** is the field of humanities that researches, documents and disseminates German language and literature in its historic and present form. Common German names for the field are "Germanistik," "Deutsche Philologie," and "Deutsche Sprachwissenschaft und Literaturwissenschaft." |original had "D Sw oder Lw" - I combined using "and" |

Modern G*** is usually seen as a combination of two sub-disciplines: German Linguistics and German Literature Studies, the later comprised of studies of Older and Newer German Literature ("Älterer" and "Neuerer deutscher Literaturwissenschaft").

Table of Contents [Hide]

   * 1 German Linguistics 
   * 2 German Literature Studies
   * 3 German Media Studies
   * 4 History of G***
   * 5 Weblinks
   * 6 See also

[Edit]

German Linguistics

German linguistics (traditionally called philology |In Germany, there is some-thing of a difference between philologists and linguists. This is kind of hard to explain and seems trivial to some but is thought crucial to others| examines the German language in its various forms through history as well as the German language of today. It is roughly divided as follows: |This division isn't exactly the same as that given in the German Wik article on Neuhochdeutsch/Hochdeutsch.|

   * Old High German (Althochdeutsch) 8th - 11th centuries)
   * Middle High German (Mittelhochdeutsch) 11th - 14th centuries
   * Early Modern High German Frühneuhochdeutsch) 14th - 17th centuries

In addition, the discipline examines German under various aspects (the way it is spoken and written, i.e., spelling; declination; vocabulary; sentence structure; texts; etc.) in their various manifestations such as language social (slang, written texts, etc.) and geographical (dialects, etc.) groupings.

Bibliography

Atlas Deutsche Sprache [CD-ROM]. Berlin: Directmedia Publishing. 2004.
Hartweg, Frédéric G.: Frühneuhochdeutsch: eine Einführung in die deutsche Sprache des Spätmittelalters und der frühen Neuzeit. Tübingen: Niemeyer. 2005.

[Edit]

German Literature Studies

Literary studies | or The study of literature| is/are divided into two parts, dealing with with the period from the beginnings of German |I don't buy this - the language is older than that.| in the early Middle Ages up to post-Medieval times around A.D.[1500]] (Ältere D/deutsche Literaturwissenschaft ) and from thence forward (Neuere D/deutsche Literaturwissenschaft), respectively. |Should these two terms be translated?| The field systematically examines German literature in terms of genre, form, content, and motifs as well as looking at it historically by author and epoch. Foci include edition philology, history of literature, and textual interpretation. The relationships of German literature to that in other languages (e.g., reception and mutual influences) and historical contexts |I've changed some stuff, e.g., in this sentence, countries to languages and dropped "European" | are additional important areas of concentration.

Bibliography

Die Deutschen Klassiker (CD-ROM).

[Edit]

German Media Studies

In recent years, G*** has looked for a connection with the fields of communications, cultural studies and media studies. In addition, the sub-branch film studies has established itself. |literally "film philologie" ! See http://www.ikp.uni-bonn.de/ZfKM/newzfkm/archiv/altekvvs/sose03/kommentare/we4320.html, |

Bibliography

Burger, Harald: Sprache der Massenmedien. Berlin: Walter de Gruyter. 1984.
Hickethier, Knut: Film- und Fernsehanalyse. Stuttgart, Weimar. 1993.
Hickethier, Knut (ed.): Aspekte der Fernsehanalyse. Methoden und Modelle. Hamburg: Lit Verlag. 1994.
Kanzog, Klaus: "Einführung in die Filmphilologie". Munich. 1997.
Muckenhaupt, Manfred: Text und Bild. Grundfragen der Beschreibung von Text-Bild-Kommunikation aus sprachwissenschaftlicher Sicht. Tübingen: Gunter Narr Verlag. 1986.
Prokop, Dieter: Medienproduktanalyse. Zugänge - Verfahren - Kritik. Tübingen: Gunter Narr Verlag.

[Edit]

History of G***

As an unsystematic field of interest for individual scholars, G*** can be traced back to Tacitus's Germania.|This is a bit misleading, since T was almost forgotten until the high Middle Ages, and even then G. probably didn't figure large for some time. See Tacitean studies article.| In terms of a true field of German language and literature, though, the research and publication of legal and historical source material as well as Medieval Bible translations, all undertaken during the Renaissance Humanism of the sixteenth century truly initiated it. [Please de-awkwardize my sentence here.] As an independent university subject, G*** was founded at the beginning of the nineteenth century by Georg Friedrich Benecke, the Brothers Grimm, and Karl Lachmann.

Bibliography

Beutin, Wolfgang: Deutsche Literaturgeschichte: von den Anfängen bis zur Gegenwart. Stuttgart: Metzler. 1992.
Fohrmann, Jürgen Fohrmann and Wilhelm Voßkamp (eds.): Wissenschaftsgeschichte der Germanistik im 19. Jahrhundert. 1994.
Shitanda, So: "Zur Vorgeschichte und Entstehung der deutschen Philologie im 19. Jh.: Karl Lachmann und die Brüder Grimm," in Literarische Problematisierung der Moderne, ed. by Teruaki Takahashi. 1992.

General Bibliography

Journals

Muttersprache.
Zeitschrift für deutsche Philologie.
Zeitschrift für Germanistik.

[Edit]

Weblinks

   * http://www.library.adelaide.edu.au/guide/hum/german/german_net.html (University of Adelaide's categorized guide to German Area Studies online)
   * http://www.dartmouth.edu/~wess/wesslit.html (Dartmouth's German-Studies Web links, annotated and arranged by topic)
   * http://libadm87.rice.edu/ref/german.cfm (Rice University's guide to German studies, including printed literature and links to German newspapers and magazines)

   * germanistik.net (tries to get the user straight to the best sources of help; in German)
   * Germanistik im Netz - Erlanger Liste (The 'Erlanger Liste' is currently the largest collection of links to the various aspects of G***, including such archives, publishers, etc.; in German)
   * Literaturwissenschaft online ("Literaturwissenschaft online" Kiel University's e-learning site with live and archived lectures; free of charge; in German.)
   * Bibliographie der Deutschen Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaft ("BDSL Online" is the electronic version of the largest bibliography in the field of German language and literature studies.  Access to report years 1985-1995 is free of charge.)
   * http://www.doaj.org/ljbs?cpid=8  (DOAJ Directory of Open Access Journals, Literature and Languages)
   * http://www.sign-lang.uni-hamburg.de/Medienprojekt/Literatur/9.med.analy.html (University of Hamburg site with media stuides bibliography)

University Departments and Research Institutions

Hamburg University, Germany: http://www.slm.uni-hamburg.de/Stuplan/DeutSprachLit_eng.html
Nehr University, India: http://www.jnu.ac.in/Academics/Schools/SchoolOfLanguage/GermanCenter.htm

[Edit]

Please help!

I would like to have help in two things here: 1) More departments of German (I have hardly started, but we should at least include the departments in various countries. I can slowly do this but would like some help.) 2) PLEASE change the name of this entry. I tend toward "German language and literature" even though this is ambiguous (i.e., L&L per se or the study of L&L). If Wik were prescriptive, "Germanistics" might have reason to be preferred. But the term is virtually unknown. (I'd change the title if I knew how to do it.)Kdammers 08:07, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What about German philology? I think that makes clear that the article is about the academic discipline. up+land 10:10, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The requested move title is overly verbose. I believe Uppland's suggestion is much better.

Peter ^Isotalo 14:32, 15 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is Wikipedia's discussion of "philology" (See the Philology article for more) : "'philology' tends to refer to a study of texts from the perspective of historical linguistics" - and that is NOT an accurate description of this academic field we are trying to re-name. That makes it "German Philology" a bit questionable for a Wik entry. I agree that GL*L is long, but it is commonly used. Philology does not usually include literature qua literature. Thus, we could lose a lot of people who are looking for the field that studies German literature. Maybe someone could ask a few people in German Departments (e.g., at UWMadison (http://www.wisc.edu/pubs/home/archives/gopher/grad94/00000204.html) and Notre Dame (www.library.nd.edu/subjects/language_and_literature_german) for their professional input. What-ever we decide, let's be sure to include enough re-directs. Kdammers 09:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The term Germanistics actually is used by some English speaking colleges, but Germanic Studies is much more common. This based on my own impressions as confirmed by Google searches. I might suggest using the long title ('German language and literature') for clarity and then having the redirects from the other suggested titles. There ought to be redirects from these various terms to whichever title is settled on in any case. --CBDunkerson 11:56, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

my vote goes to "Germanic studies" too. If only German (as opposed to Germanic in the wider sense) language and literature are intended, "German studies" is fine too. dab (ᛏ) 12:29, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I would second dab's opinion. Bessel Dekker 02:25, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

German includes Dutch, etc., which I don't think we want included here. Kdammers 08:15, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.phds.org/rankings/german/rank#myd The NRC uses "German Language and Literature" in the RANKINGS of US grad deparments in German. Kdammers 07:41, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

RFM result

There was a request to move this page as outlined above. However, there are a few options tossed around and no real consensus. SimonP suggested German language and literature studies. The request was:

Talk:Germanistics — Germanistics → German Language and Literature – {reason for move} – Germanistics is rarely used and was the article's title because the person naming it simply anglicized the title of the German article and subject area – Kdammers 04:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- No one else has chimed in. I hope an adminstrator will kae this change. Please note that the original naming was apparently done by a German speaker who did little more than transliterate the word to start an entry. I translated the German Wik article and there was some discussion on the title between one other person and me. Although not a specialist in this area, I do have a more than passing acquaintance with it, and work as a translator for academic German into English. Kdammers 04:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Refile when something is decided upon - take care! Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 14:35, 15 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There is no need to refile anything. We can move the page ourselves if we reach consensus. We don't need an admin to do it for us.

Peter ^Isotalo 14:53, 15 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What about German studies? There's already a very stubby little two-liner there which could easily be merged here, and then the whole shebang moved to that title. --User:Angr/talk 17:35, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Putting all the content under German studies sounds good, especially since that is what the German Germanistik sometimes means. See e.g. this website of a Germanistik faculty at a German university, which includes Deutsche Philologie (German language and literature studies) and Kulturanthropologie/Volkskunde, a subject previously known as Deutsche Volkskunde (Ethnology of the German people). --Kusma (talk) 04:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Responding to request for comment I'll vote for "German language and literature." As a bilingual North American it seems like the best solution. English doesn't really have a succinct translation, but the phrase "X language and literature" conveys a similar intention about a variety of languages. Durova 07:55, 29 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Responding to request for comment I think that German Studies and German Philology are the two best options. I am majoring in German Studies and it encompasses everything listed in the article. It deals with language, culture, and history. However, German philology is more technical and deals primarily with language than anything else. Ventzi

interpretation

To venture comment on the origins of the linguistic efforts, perhaps it is necessary to acknowledge that terminology which describes maintenance and repair of original structures is different from that used to describe the building process.

Germany has a number of ancient castle-type structures having extremely remote or otherwise high-altitude/mountaintop locations, which became a cause for contention when 'the English' thought to claim them from afar with intent to update and repair them for themselves. Similar to controversies about the construction of the Egyptian pyramids, the original scen-arios of castle construction give some insight about how to maintain and repair them, but need modern-day linguistics to conceptualize such activity -- 'Germanistics' as a term pro-vides allusion to issues of floral 'loft' necessary to sustain ongoing repair and maintenance protocols, as well as to the physiological state of human populations which is necessary to sustain such protocols. 11/19/2005 00:24, 20 November 2005 (UTC) beadtot

List of institutions

To include every university in the world which offers studies in Germanistics (or whatever it is supposed to be called) seems to be beyond the scope of a page like this. It would include thousands of institutions. up+land 08:18, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]