Talk:List of Formula One circuits

Untitled

I noticed that the South African Grand Prix held in East London is listed in years before 1950 whereas the title mentions circuits listed from 1950 till 2008! So this should be changed, also 1960, 1961 and 1966 were not part of the F1 World Championship and should be removed as well. The Dutch Grand Prix held on Circuit Park Zandvoort shows the current layout of the circuit used nowadays for e.g. the A1 Grand Prix. It should show the layout as they used to drive F1 races on till 1985. Belanda Gila (talk) 05:45, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I corrected the coordinates of all of the current circuits in their respective pages and included the coordinate header to allow the use of the "Coordinates:" feature.--Ciroa 14:09, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that the list included has only 64 circuits. The introductory text mentions that 65 tracks have hosted WDC races. I do not know why the discrepancy.--Ciroa 23:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I found that Le Mans - La Sarthe is missing from the list and added it. It hosted the 1967 French GP.--Ciroa 06:27, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I've gone through a full list and found no missing entries apart from the Bugatti Circuit, which is now added.

There are a few thing that could be the cause of this:

• The Nürburgring Nordschleife that hosted Grands Prix before 1976 was a completely different track to the Nürburgring that has hosted Grands Prix since 1984. There is only one Nürburgring entry on this list currently.
• The Österreichring and A1-Ring are located at the same place but they differ in the actual course somewhat. It currently has two entries here, that is inconsistant when Nürburgring has only one.
• The Indianapolis 500 (on the oval track) was counted as a Formula One race from 1950-1960, while the Indianapolis road course layout has hosted since 2000, about as much of a difference as the Österreichring and A1-Ring. This currently only has one entry here which only covers races since 2000.

In my opinion the Nürbringring Nordschleife, Nürburgring, Indianapolis Oval and Indianapolis Road Course should all have separate entries on this list, while the Österreichring and A1-Ring should be in the same entry, as they only differ slightly in course design, like many others on this list. - MTC 07:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

• I corrected the number of GP's from 27 to 28 and modified the years from 1982-2006 to 1978-1986, 1988-2006 at Gilles Villeneuve entry.

• What a track is:

I agree with MTC. The "kml" list I keep, with the coordinates of F1 tracks, locate the point that represents the track at "the inner side of the finish line". Thus, in my list I follow MTC recommendation, and have separate entries for Nürburgring and Nürburgring-Nordschlieffe and one entry for A1 Ring - Österreichring. In the "coordinates" list I keep, Indy is an exception, as its finish line has always been at the "brickyard".

I believe that the only definition of what an F1 circuit is, consistent with the present form of the article, is based on the "common site" where the race occurs. By common, I mean common for the potential readers of the article. I wouldn't touch the list much, it is well done.

For example, there is only one article in Wikipedia for Nürburgring Circuit, article that includes the actual layout and the Nordschliefe one. This is the way I see the track depicted in sites devoted to track layouts.

Another "encyclopedic example", racingcircuits.com, has only one entry for Nürburgring, Indy and Österreich, and at each entry there are differente images with the different layouts through the years, no matter what radical changes the "track" has sustained in time. Minute changes alter a track from the racing point of view, like the chicanes at Monza, so it would be hard to define a "track" based only on the layout (or only on the coordinates, like I do).

Besides, Nürburgring is not the only circuit whose layout has changed radically: older circuits, like Le Mans, that have hosted races for a century, have been altered enormously through the years and have "kept the name". I believe the readers of the article wouldn't expect different entries for Le Mans Grand Prix that keep some record of all these layout changes. Even Nürburgring had (1960's) the Nordschliefe and the current circuit (in its original version) joined in one big track, to add to the confusion.

However, the crucial point, I think, is that to follow MTC (and mine) advice we need different articles in Wikipedia for each track (one for Indy oval and other for Indy inner course, etcetera).

So, for the sake of simplicity, I propose to have as many tracks in this list as Wikipedia articles we have and let to the discussion at each track article decide what a "track name" is, based on its historical or otherwise, particular characteristics.

• I had located the Bugatti Circuit under "Le Mans - Bugatti Circuit" in the letter "L", as I thought most people tends to look for the "common name" of the circuit. This is another thing I find a little strange in this article: there we have a "quasi-alphabetic" name list, where the Autodromo Nazionale, at Monza, is under the "M" (Monza, I guess) and the Autodromo Enzo y Dino Ferrari at Imola is under the "E" (again, I guess is Enzo). It is clear that the list is ordered with the reader in mind, as I said before.

It is Monza and Imola (under "M" and "I") or Autodromo Nazionale y Autodromo Enzo y Dino Ferrari (under "N" and "E")? Why then, the famous Interlagos is under the "J" as "Autodromo José Carlos Pace" and "Circuit Gilles Villeneuve" is under the "G"? In this list "Autodrom" and its derivates, or "Circuit" apparently does not count as part of the name.

Even some articles do not use the "official name": for example the Circuit Fernanda Pires da Silva Wikipedia article is under the name Estoril, the same way is ordered and mentioned in this list. Meanwhile, Magny-Cours is under the "M" in this list while its article has the title "Circuit Nevers Magny-Cours", its correct official name. Where do we put it? Under the "C" of circuit, the "N" of Nevers or the "M" of Magny?

I guess we could add a new column or heading with the "common name" ("common" for the readers of this article): Imola, Monza, Le Mans, Giles Villeneuve, Interlagos, Estoril, Magny-Cours etcetera and left the present "Name" under the heading of "Oficial circuit name", because that is the way the list seem to be ordered, in first place.

• I'll wait for a while to correct the article, before following my own recommendations, provided there are no other suggestions.

After that I will join Österreichring with A1-Ring, as they have the same Wiki article and left a list with 64 tracks.

Besides that (perhaps) I'll include the common name column and order the list by that column (or better yet, I'll devote my time to other things if somebody does not agree). I believe this is the way to modify the less the present list.

Finally, I couldn't find a non-copyrighted image of the Bugatti Circuit, I hope somebody has time to draw it. The present article we have on it is a stub. --Ciroa 05:35, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

SVG-Maps

I find it great that all trackmaps are included, that they have a consistent style and legends. However I wanted to note, that it would be great if future versions could be done in SVG, so they are scalable. Imho I haven't found many ressources for scalable trackmaps. So this would be quite great. Dahie (talk) 08:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Valencia

Added Valencia Street Circuit as it is confirmed for 2008 John Hayes 14:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

street circuit

I adding marks on tipe of the track.The Tramp 21:23, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

2011

I'm not very happy with future dates in the table. There is - just - a case for adding 2008 for tracks which are in next year's published calendar, but nothing's a fact till it has happened! -- Ian Dalziel 10:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I think including future years in the "Season(s)" column opens the possibility for confusion regarding the "Total" column. Consider Albert Park: The "Season(s)" column says "1996-2008" and the "Total" column says "12". I can imagine a casual reader saying "1996-2008 - isn't the 13 races?". I'd like to see the "Season(s)" column split into two column: "Races which have already been held" (but with a better/shorted name) and "Planned/expected/contracted future races". I'd even consider putting current season races which haven't actually been held yet in the "future" column, and then move them across to the "races which have been held" column once the race is run. DH85868993 10:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Aintree

"Aintree was a purpose built race circuit, not a road circuit. (80% is still intact.) On the plan, Sefton Straight should be shown as the straight between points 2 & 3 (a commonly repeated mistake). Railway Straight (singular) is the straight between points 6 & 7. Please amend." Comment added to article by Speedsport (Talk); transferred to talkpage by DH85868993 (talk) 20:34, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Column for countries

I added a column for the countries in which the circuits are located. I find it good to be able to sort the table along that line. It was undid because the flags was deemed unnecessary. Why not just remove the flags then??? John Anderson (talk) 11:58, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

The flags have definitely got to go. The country column itself I don't have a huge problem with, but it's certainly superfluous. There's already a column for the Grand Prix and in 95% of cases, the name of the country and the name of the Grand Prix are the same. What's the point? Bretonbanquet (talk) 12:06, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Flags definately need to be erased. They should never be used purely for decorative purposes, which they are here. --Falcadore (talk) 13:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

OK, the flag may be removed, they are not important. I find it interesting, however, to be able to sort and see which and how many circuits have been used in different countries. That is the main reason for the column. What do you have against that? John Anderson (talk) 05:01, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

That explanation is on my talk page where you asked me directly. --Falcadore (talk) 05:36, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't, I directed you here. John Anderson (talk) 09:04, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

and yet the power could be yours... --Falcadore (talk) 11:34, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand why we don't want flags on the list. It's a list of circuits, which are actual places of a country. Bly000 (talk) 13:14, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

2011 Bahrain

Should there be a * or something similar next to the dates on the Bahrain GP and a section of text at the bottom saying that it was originally on the 2011 calendar and it has not yet been decided if it will happen. Sas1998 (talk) 13:29, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Done, but I added the * next to the circuit's name rather than the dates, since the dates are now only updated after a race has been held. DH85868993 (talk) 03:40, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we should, unless we are going to include a note for every cancelled Grand Prix. --Falcadore (talk) 00:43, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

But that's the point: as I understand it, it hasn't yet been decided whether the race will be cancelled or held later in the year. If it's decided in May that the race is cancelled, I would then remove the note. DH85868993 (talk) 01:21, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

You don't think that's speculatory? --Falcadore (talk) 01:35, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Not really. There will be a meeting on May 1 to decide whether or not there will be a F1 race held at the circuit in 2011 (see http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/3/11797.html). My main rationale for adding the note was to clarify the term "current tracks": since we don't know for sure the race will be held, I don't think we can definitively state that Bahrain is a current circuit, but since the race hasn't definitely been cancelled, I also don't think we can definitely state that it's not a current circuit. Having said that, I'm not especially passionate about the note being there - feel free to remove it if you want to. If you do, you may also choose to remove the similar note from List of Formula One Grands Prix. DH85868993 (talk) 04:55, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Track direction

Someone left a feedback suggesting that it might be a good idea to have a short note explaining which circuits are anti-clockwise circuits. Most are clockwise, so the note could go something like, "All circuits are clockwise apart from x, y and z". Thoughts? Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:47, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. DH85868993 (talk) 02:11, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

If it can be reliably sourced then I'm all for it. NapHit (talk) 16:17, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Proposed circuits?

There is a section which is named Proposed circuits. I think that it should be re-named to Future circuits, because if we were to put every proposed track in there it would also include Rome and London. The two circuits which are currently present in that section are officially announced (if not contracted). Sas1998 (Talk) 16:31, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't think there is an issue. The prose in the section clearly states that these circuits will be included in the future, whereas there is no clarification that either of the Rome or London circuits will be included anytime soon. NapHit (talk) 18:22, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

1984 Dallas track

I have an issue with the "Fair Park" name. I've heard it described as "State Fair Park", "Texas State Fair Park" of even just "Dallas", but never "Fair Park". My friend who lives in the area and was at the race in question just laughed when I mentioned the name used here. Could we get a realistic revision?Will102 (talk) 02:49, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

The circuit is named after the park, which is, in fact, named Fair Park. If you have sources that state otherwise, I would suggest posting on the Talk Page for the park. JohnMcButts (talk) 03:26, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Is google wrong? Google maps has Fair Park written all over everything around the old Cotton Bowl. --Falcadore (talk) 09:43, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Google lists several places on their map, which are in white font, as "XXXXX at Fair Park", such as Music Hall at Fair Park, Children's Aquarium at Fair Park, as well as Fair Park itself. In green font, which is an event/attraction, it lists Texas State Fair. For what it's worth, here is their official website. Twirlypen (talk) 05:49, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

The debate was about the name of the venue, not the name of the event (which is Dallas Grand Prix in any event). --Falcadore (talk) 06:36, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Which was why I said what I said. There's no mention of State Fair Park or Texas State Fair Park, and I provided a link to the official website, which is simply fairpark.org ... and mentioning that the event labeled as Texas State Fair had no bearing on what the area of the circuit was and is actually called. Twirlypen (talk) 07:00, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

We seem to be pretty inconsistent about it as well. Here we call it Fair Park. At the 1984 season article we just call it Dallas and at the circuit's article we call it "Dallas Grand Prix circuit. Tvx1 21:53, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Inappropriate map of F1 circuits (Crimea peninsula)

I would like to point at inappropriate map of F1 circuits: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Formula_1_all_over_the_world-2016-new.svg

Concretely, the map shows Russian borders including Crimea, a Ukrainian terrirory, annexed by Russia on March, 2014: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

This territory is not recognized as Russian one by UN and majority of countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation#Recognition

As any sport tends to be apolitical, I recommend to make changes to the map, excluding Crimea peninsula from the territories (actually, countries) marked as those which have hosted a Grand Prix in 2015. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.118.123.231 (talk) 14:21, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Track's elevation change

It would be maybe a good idea to include the track elevation change values for each circuit if known. Pvass68 (talk) 09:30, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

I think this is getting into the realm of WP:CRUFT and WP:NOTSTATS. I don't think it's necessary at all. NapHit (talk) 09:33, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

The banking of oval tracks are in the articles, too. I don't see a big difference between a banking info and a elevation change info. --Mark McWire (talk) 12:41, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

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Indianapolis Motor Speedway

Shouldn't the two layouts for the Indianapolis Motor Speedway track be one entry as it is the same facility but another layout? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SSSB (talk • contribs) 17:35, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Also for the track layout used between 1950 and 1960 the track map shows the wrong layout. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SSSB (talk • contribs) 17:41, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Demolished circuits

Could there be a colour code for the circuits that are no longer in existence or no longer viable? For example the Autódromo Internacional Nelson Piquet was demolished in 2012 for the Olympics.
Edd of Mercia (talk) 13:00, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Circuit Gilles Villeneuve is not listed in Street circuit. There is no mention of "street" on its page. The images on its page show no public streets. So how is it a street circuit? --Vossanova ^o< 14:19, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

2020 Vietnam and Italy

I thought they canceled Vietnam and Italy. The Mo-Ja'al (talk) 22:36, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Italy has been confirmed for 5 September and Vietnam has been postponed indefinitely. See F1 2020 for refs on this.
SSSB (talk) 22:45, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

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Circuits run in both directions

Currently there are listed just one direction for each circuit used. However, Indianapolis ran anti-clockwise when Indianapolis 500 was in the calendar as opposed to clockwise in United States Grand Prix. Another circuit to change is Kyalami, as the old circuit used until 1985 was clockwise and 1992-93 one anti-clockwise.

Also, Monza was a figure-of-eight circuit when oval section was used, right? BleuDXXXIV (talk) 12:01, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Monza wasn't a figure of eight. Yes, it crossed itself, but both "loops" ran in the clockwise direction. Anyway, I think that the current approach is to list the direction which corrosponds to the citcuit layout (i.e. the last used direction) SSSB (talk) 12:23, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

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No Ukrainian grands prix

There has never been a Grand Prix in Ukraine, but the south of Ukraine is currently shaded. This needs to be corrected. 188.95.54.29 (talk) 14:09, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Where is Nordschleife?

Nordschleife is missing. Tangost1 (talk) 18:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

No its not. It is listed under Nürburgring which is the venue name (Nordschleife is simply the name of a configuaration of the circuit). As per the info at the top the article, the most recent layout used (from 2020 Eifel Grand Prix) is shown. SSSB (talk) 21:30, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

they need to be separated because the page is a "list of circuits" and GP-strecke, Nordschleife are different circuits. They are not just a minor curve tweak or something they are distinctly two very different tracks. The page is a farce if it does include a famous long one... how am I supposed to accurately compare lengths over time? Tangost1 (talk) 15:30, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

"Circuit" describes the venue. Nordschliefe and GP-Strecke are alternate layouts of the same circuit/venue - the Nurburgring. Otherwise we would need a new entry every time a layout changed (your idea to determine how different a layout is before deciding whether it seserves its own entry would be arbitary WP:OR and unencylopdic.) How would you compare laps over time? Even with your proposed change you couldnt do that. Spa's length has halved, so has Interlagos and Zandvoort. Hockenheim and Monza are about 40% shorter. Paul Ricard went from 5.8 k, to 3.8 back to 5.8. How layouts have chnaged over time is beyond thr scope of this list. SSSB (talk) 16:03, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Well do you think then we could at least have an image of the entire venue? If each circuit represents a venue then surely each image should show the entire venue as it is at present with its most recent layout in black. Monza, Bahrain, Catalunya, Abu Dhabi, Hermanos Rodríguez, and Silverstone all feature alternative layouts that have previously been used within their image in grey i.e the entire venue. If Nordschleife and the GP-Strecke circuit both constitute the [1] then they should both appear in the image otherwise the image of GP-Strecke is an inaccurate depiction of the [2] as a venue. Tangost1 (talk) 23:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

You would have to propose an image but my initial thought is no, we can't. Becuase the Nordschliefe layout is so large you wouldn't be able to see detail on the layout which is being refered to.

"Monza, Bahrain, Catalunya, Abu Dhabi, Hermanos Rodríguez, and Silverstone all feature alternative layouts that have previously been used" no they don't, they feature current alternate layouts. Only Bahrain, Catalunya and Silverstone happen to show previous F1 layouts by coincidence. The Monza, Abu Dhabi and Hermanos Rodríguez show alternate non-f1 layouts, which actually have no relevance. Most of these tracks maps don't show the alternate layouts at all (e.g. Zandvoort) SSSB (talk) 08:37, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Reformation

Reformation of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Formula_One_circuits Okay, well as I am The Tangost, your genuine skyward absolute dictator, I'm going to embark on a series of changes to this page within the next year. If it doesn't happen I'm too busy dealing with the attempts by the US, British and Turkish governments interfering in my narcissistic eco-vision to have the time.

Table Changes: The page is called 'List of F1 Circuits'. It is not called 'List of F1 Venues'. 'Circuit' refers to a shape with a topology of 1. Therefore, we will be reforming the columns on the page to include the following:

-Venue. This denotes the general complex by its common name, e.g. Interlagos, Imola or Nurburgring

-Circuit. This denotes the official name, e.g. Autodromo José Carlos Pace, Autodromo Internazionale Enzo e Dino Ferrari, or Nurburgring.

-Configurations. This denotes all of the alternative layouts previously used in Formula 1. e.g Interlagos 1973 and current etc; Imola pre-1994 and current etc; Nordschleife and GP-Strecke etc. etc. etc. Each individual configuration will be its own sub row within each row for Venue, etc. This column will be visualised with a set of coherent images. Please see below for image specifications:

-Type. This will denote the type of racing surface using the terms: Permanent, Street and Mixed.

-Direction. Same as current.

-Location. This will denote the location of the venue. e.g Interlagos, Sao Paolo

-Country. Same as current.

-Length. This will denote the length of every configuration sub-rowed in the same way as 'Configurations.'

-Turns.This will denote the number of turns in every configuration sub-rowed in the same way as 'Configurations.'

-Grand Prix. Same as before.

-Seasons. This column will be split. The left hand-side will denote the years the venue has been used and the right hand-side with be sub-rowed with the appropriate years for each configuration.

-Grand Prix Held. This column will be split. The left hand-side will denote the otal number of Grand Prix the venue has held and the right hand-side with be sub-rowed with the appropriate number for each configuration.

Image Specifications:

-Currently used configurations will be emboldened against others.

-Where previous configurations get complicated, e.g Silverstone's Luffield, where more than one radius curve has been used, a maximum of three (the most recent) will be displayed. Any more and an addendum will be made to refer to the venue's page.

-Coloured areas will only be reserved for tunnels, e.g Monaco and Yas Marina's pitlane, and bodies of water. Greens and greys will not be used.

-A metric scale

-A North arrow

-Sectors will not be visualised. An addendum will be made to refer to the venue's page.

-Consistent typeface.

-Consistent line thickness. The thickness will not change to the relative width of each corner in reality, it will take the central line.

Other Considerations:

-The pale red highlighting for venues currently on the calendar will occur in the 'Venue' column and the 'Configuration' column for the current configuration.

-The 5.67km Fenwick Circuit used in 1959 will be included once my negotiations with the Telluria have restored mankind's lost memories and we can revel in Tony Brooks' lost championship win.

Other Other considerations:

-The thing about being a dictator and Tony Brooks is a joke.Tangost1 (talk) 00:33, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

First off, since you started a discussion you can't make any changes until you have a consensus.

Now let's delve into the argument. You argue that the title of this article requires us to have a separate row for each configuration F1 has raced on. Don't agree. Even if I did agree, I would argue that we should move the page to List of Formula One venues.

But then you almost immediately contradict yourself by saying "Where previous configurations get complicated [...] a maximum of three (the most recent) will be displayed. Any more and an addendum will be made to refer to the venue's page." I'm sorry, but either you believe that all configurations should be shown, or you only believe the most recent [X] should be shown (and there is no reason to display the most recent 3 over the most recent 1.) You can't have it all ways. Frankly (when you consider the thread above) this proposed reformation looks like a thinly veiled tantrum that the Nordschliefe isn't a separate entry to Nurburgring on this list. And therefore this proposal shouldn't get any acknowledgement at all.

Even if this isn't the case, and you acknowledge that the entire premise of your argument only works if we have a separate row for each layout, I would still be strongly opposed:

I completely reject the premise that the term "circuit" applies strictly to one configuration of a venue. "Silverstone Circuit" (notice the singular) is the name of the venue, not the name of a specific configuration. In the context of motorsport the term "circuit" more commonly refers to the venue, not the layout. You arrive at the Circuit, doesn't mean you arrive at a specific layout, you have simply arrived at the venue. Having a separate row for each layout (8 for Silverstone, 3 for Singapore, 3 for Hungary etc.) is ludicrous, anyone in conversational English would agree it is the same circuit. SSSB (talk) 17:30, 2 September 2024 (UTC)