Talk:Ford Falcon (Australia)

Argentina

Is this the same Ford Falcon that has an infamous history of use by death squads in Argentina? If so the name should not escape the history. 67.53.78.15 03:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

See Ford Falcon (Argentina). Grant | Talk 05:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, yes. Silly me. I should try more searches in the future 67.53.78.15 16:58, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The Fog of War

The Fog of War features Mr. McNamara talking about his time at Ford Motor Co, including the genesis of the Ford Falcon. Perhaps it should be mentioned here?

See the disambig and the previous comment, this is about the long-lived Australian version, not the Argentinian Death Squads or the former Secretary of Defense. Ford Falcon (North American) would be more appropriate. Karldoh 23:52, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

EB II - ED Falcons

The EB II and the ED falcons are exactly the same car, albeit with a slightly different grill and a handful of options as standard. The big change in the EA-ED shaped cars was the introduction of the EB series II- Not the introduction of the ED. The EB series one has an awful lot in common with the last of the EA's. The introduction of the EB II in October 1992 was the point where the major faults of the EA were rectified, and only purely superficial changes were made until the introduction of the EF. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.70.88 (talk • contribs)

You have a point, but that is no reason not to include the ED section. Even though the cars are so similar, they are still not the same. And besides there is only a short paragraph on the ED section anyway. OSX (talk • contributions) 10:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Lies and drivel

"The radically redesigned Ford AU Falcon released in 1998, came after failed attempts to replace the Falcon with the American-sourced Ford Taurus"

There was no realistic plan to replace Falcon by Taurus. Q How do you replace a car with a base price of $25000 with a $35000 replacement that is smaller, can't tow, and is slower? A only a journalist would know how.

"The only exception was the XF series, which lasted through the initial EA26 era due to the perceived unreliabity of the base EA model."

Absolutely untrue. The reliability of EA became apparent long after the decision to keep the XF ute.

Greglocock 11:42, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Could you provide a source to backup your statement? OSX (talk • contributions) 05:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

No, otherwise I would have edited the article appropriately. As it is probably the best thing to do would be to remove the offending sentences. Greglocock 07:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

You may want to look at this: http://glassguide.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/RT/A3099F03533DD3B2CA256D6E001DE35F_Our+Opinion?OpenDocument , which states "Then came the radical 1996 Taurus MK2. Under pressure from the US, Ford Australia almost replaced the local Falcon with this car until the AU Falcon proposal narrowly beat it.". OSX (talk • contributions) 08:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Suppose an anonymous journo writes in a referenceless article "In 1997 according there was a proposal to rebadge Commodores as Fairmont Ghias" . Would that go into the article? I would not be able to find a contradiction to that claim. Greglocock 00:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, I've found a publically available source that comes close to the truth. And have edited the article to suit. The weasel words in the quote are 'almost' and 'narrowly'. They looked at it because Dearborn told them to. The experience with selling Taurus in Oz was enought to expose the likley problems.Greglocock 23:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

So it wasn't "Lies and drivel" then? Perhaps next time take a more diplomatic angle when bringing up someones work on wiki. :)

CHSoarer 12:52, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps. There again if I think it is lies and drivel I'll continue to say so. As written it was drivel, the emphasis was ridiculous and lies, because the implication was false. So, CHSoarer, you're a big fan of weasel words, spin and misdirection? Greglocock 23:24, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Although I'm not really interested in getting into an argument on a wiki talk page I'd just like to point out I didn't start the heading named "lies and drivel" that turned out to be at least half-truth in your own admission. Perhaps you yourself are a fan of said spin and misdirection albeit only when posting in talk pages?

CHSoarer 10:28, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Problems with this article

I found the following problems with this article:

• In the introduction please briefly mention the short history in America the Falcon had. The introduction mentions it but it does no tell the reader why it came over here. It also does not mention its main competitor the Holden Commodore and other competitors.

Yet oddly the articles that are linked from that change do not mention the Falcon as being a main competitor. Greglocock 23:38, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

* In the second paragraph it states “Ford has manufactured over three million units since 1960, and has topped the sales charts in Australia on many occasions.” How do we know if that is true? We need references to back that statement up. See Reference 1. Harrison-HB4026 09:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

• In the third paragraph it states that the Falcon is the basis for the Fairlane/LTD models, but it must say that the Fairlane/LTD models have been discontinued instead of saying the Fairlane/LTD is still in production thanks to the Falcon.

Why would it say that? LWB is still in production as of today's date.Greglocock 04:39, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• The introduction generally needs more work.

• Try to keep the pictures on one side instead of all over the place it confuses the reader.

• More references are needed for the article especially in the first 2-4 sections, as the article moves to the bottom it seems that more references are there this is good but we need references all throughout the article not just in one certain area.

• The first and second sections don’t have the model as the sub-heading. It must look like the third section which has the “Third generation (1972–1979)” as the heading and then the “XA-XC” as the sub-heading, the first and second section don’t have these proper headings.

• More pictures are needed throughout this article.

• Try adding just a few External Links at the bottom.

The points above were listed by Senators and if you have any questions or queries just leave a message on his talk page.Senators^{Talk | Contribs} 23:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello I am removing the 'police cars' line because it is completely incorrect. Holden Commodores are what are used by the Australian police force (mainly Omega and Executive models). 61.14.27.42 (talk) 02:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

[1] what's that then? Greg Locock (talk) 04:02, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

In an old job I was working on former police cars (From NT, WA, QLD and NSW) before they went into the used car auctions which about half were Ford Falcons although Northern Territory Police have started to replace the Ford Falcon with the Holden Omega sedans. NSW still has Ford Falcons but not as many as they use to have but Victoria seem to be sticking with the Ford Falcon but not sure about WA, TAS, SA, ACT and QLD. Also what I've just written is what I've seen but shouldn't be used in the article as this is just my observation. Bidgee (talk) 04:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Popular culture reference

Someone should mention that this car was made somewhat famous in the Mad Max movie series. There are even body kits available to modify an XB to look exactly as it did in the movies. And those kits are even available in the USA. I am sure there are other pop culture references besides Mad Max. Thaddeusw 05:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Pop culture and trivia sections are generally being removed from wiki articles in accordance with the guidelines. WP:TRIV Greglocock 06:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Here is an article on the pop culture part http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fv20071111pl.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.108.16.189 (talk) 01:42, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Notes and References

Looks like I need some help in getting the Notes and Refrences to work properly. I thought it was working OK until I saw that my Edit actions in XL, XM, XP etc had created multiple entries for "The Austalian Ford Falcon Collection, © 1989" under Notes and References. Apologies for these duplications and thanks in advance for any help offered.

GTHO 03:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Theres no need to be sorry for citing sources, thats something we need more of. Anyway, I've fixed up the references for you, and if you have any future issues, please do not hesitate to ask. Regards OSX (talk • contributions) 06:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Help me!

1) Anyone can give me some pictures of the EA Falcon (I'm not australian)?
2) Who knows the measures of the wagon? I wrote only the sedan's.
Thank you!Jacopobenz 13:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Images of the EA can be found here, and the station wagon's dimensions here. OSX (talk • contributions) 08:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Copy protection?

Can somebody clarify the "replica" refs in the captions? I'm presuming they aren't 'glass copies, but something like resto or modified cars. TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 06:31, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

in response to

There is a persistent meme in this article and others that models were introduced in response to some model from another company. That may be possible, but the lead time for a set of wheels and some pinstripes is 12 months, any real change is 2 years, and a fundamental change is more like 4 years. So this game of pingpong beloved of wiki editors really doesn't exist. Simple question, if pingpong worked, why did it take Toyota so long to bring the 4wd Kluger out? Greglocock (talk) 11:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I have removed some of these references (I think the ED one is valid though; its only an EB II with a new grille, etc). While your right in saying changes, even those minor take at least 12 months, it is not like Ford would not know when a new Commodore model is coming. VE was known about (in some detail) at least two years prior to its release. The same goes for the Alloytec engine, that was announced back early in the decade (2001?) and not released in a Holden until 2004. OSX (talk • contributions) 11:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

True, but you'll notice that details are only released six months ahead of J1, so any immediate response to a real innovation would be an SVP or price action. For instance the 3.0 l V6 on Commodore has not inspired ANY activity here, we're just going to watch and see if it tanks. The failure of the 3.2 litre I6 in the marketplace is still a sore point! It was actually quite a nice engine, with a turbo it would be great.Greglocock (talk) 00:53, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Falcon Facts

As Geocities was closed down last month, Falcon Facts (referenced by this article), which was hosted by Geocities was automatically deleted. The website does has been archived and re-setup here at http://www.falconfacts.net/ OSX (talk • contributions) 04:18, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Exports to other countries

Currently this section make no sense. First it says that RHD Falcons were killed in October 2007. Then it says that Ford is "considering" this model based on sources from 2006. Err. Furthermore the quote that this car could "save Ford" is extreme cherry-picking, and very hilarious from the North American standpoint, especially after the similar Holden Commodore imports flopped.

The entire section seems to reflect internet speculation circa 2006. It needs to be rewritten to reflect the correct chronology and remove a lot of the editorial nonsense. I tried, got reverted, so it is up to someone else to fix this blatant badness. Atarivideomusic (talk) 05:36, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

If I reverted you then I apologise. I agree the article is a farrago of lies and nonsense in parts but those who wrote it are very proud of it. Greglocock (talk) 05:53, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Well OK, one was me. TTAC are clueless most of the time that's why i don't think they are much use as a source, unless they are directly quoting someone. Perhaps it is worth going through that section and sorting it out here, rather than in article space. Greglocock (talk) 06:16, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

My mistake for citing a secondary source, especially one with a dubious reputation. Unfortunately the primary-source "Ford kills GRWD" article is behind Automotive News's paywall with few google alternatives. Thanks internet, Atarivideomusic (talk) 08:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Australian Falcon exports have traditionally been confined to right-hand-drive countries in the Asia-Pacific region, such as New Zealand (where Ford New Zealand sometimes devised local trim models, such as the Falcon 600), and Pacific Island nations like Papua New Guinea and Fiji. New Zealand assembly of the Falcon in Wiri ceased in the early 1990s, after which all Falcons sold in New Zealand have been fully imported from Australia.

OK so far.

The only significant export market for the Falcon outside of Oceania has been South Africa, where it was released in 1996 after an absence of over 20 years, but was dropped in 2003. Some limousines and hearses (inc. LPG-only powered Utes) are exported to the UK by Coleman Milne, who used to convert European-made Granadas and Scorpios for the same purposes.

Anorak stuff, presumably true

Hong Kong also imported a small batch of LPG-powered AU Falcon station wagons for trial as taxis, and although it initially found favour in luggage capacity with operators when compared to mainstream taxis like the Toyota Comfort, it has not seen success there, citing higher operating costs.

sounds about rigth

Ford had intended developing the car with left hand drive export potential, and received federal and state government grants to assist, but in October 2007 it was announced by Ford Australia president Tom Gorman that the left-hand-drive Falcon project was to be abandoned and the export incentive grant money would be directed to construction of the Ford Focus small-car in Australia. As Orion will utilize much of the Falcon's existing architecture, converting it to left hand drive would have been a costly and time consuming process.

sounds about right

Consequently, Ford is now exploring the idea of exporting or at least incorporating common engineering of the Falcon to North America. The US press has observed that "Australia has become the place to find the quintessential American muscle sedan" and noted these cars "could save Ford now, if they were for sale in North America." Had the Falcon been for sale in North America, it would likely replace the Ford Crown Victoria in the full-size, rear wheel drive sedan market. Comparing the Australian Fairlane GHIA,G220,G8 and LTD to the Crown Victoria, the LTD is slightly shorter though appears about the same (202 vs. 212 inches), about as heavy (4096 vs 4157 lb), but has a bigger 5408cc 5.4L 3V with VCT technology V8 engine with more power and a lot more torque and a 6 speed ZF automatic transmission and a 2.53 final drive ratio, (it has 308 hp (230 kW) and 500Nm of torque vs 224 hp (167 kW) and 373Nm of torque for civilian, and 250 hp (186 kW) and 403 Nm for police version). Falcons would also likely fill the Crown Victoria's roles of police interceptors and taxicabs in North America, a role they commonly play in Australia. By June 2007, magazines such as Motor Trend reported that Ford would share platforms to replace rear-drive vehicles in both Australia and North America, including the Mustang and full-sized sedans, and possibly importing vehicles from North America to replace low-volume long-wheelbase Falcon derivatives.

speculation and tosh in equal measure

Ford Australia has stated that they have considered exporting the FG Falcon to China and the Middle East.

only worth including if it has happened. Has it? Of course you always consider exporting cars, that doesn't mean anybody takes it very seriously. The Chinese government was bitterly opposed to large car and SUV and 4x4 imports in that timeframe. Greglocock (talk) 06:16, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

My suggestion, just cut out the whole "Consequently," paragraph. Current Falcon is never going to be LHD (per refs). Crown Victoria is a low-profit fleet-only 'public service' vehicle for police, which will end production soon, and is completely irrelevant to the modern NA retail market (ie, who cares about the dimensions, won't "save Ford" etc).

Someday, Ford will announce their global full-sized strategy, this article will be updated within 24 hours, and all of this silly 3 year old handwaving will be completely irrelevant. Fix it and you have a better article until then. Thanks, Atarivideomusic (talk) 08:26, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Sounds right to me. There is a crown vic replacement, I didn't bother reading up on it. Either way it won't be based on falcon. SO have any of the rumor-monkeys got anything to add?Greglocock (talk) 10:19, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. The Police Interceptor replacement seems to have even the usual 'insiders' puzzled, and I've seen nothing from the press. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a Taurus though. Atarivideomusic (talk) 08:44, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

References

XH, Just an update ??

Hi Guys. I usually comment only on Holden articles, because that's my area of expertise, but I just read through the Ford Falcon article & thought that I should make comment. The paragraph on XH is quite short & basically treats the XH as a minor facelift of the preceding XG. This is not the case, the XH was a serious upgrade. It gained all-new front suspension & rack & pinion steering from the EA-EL series cars. This meant all that the frame & bodywork from the firewall forward was changed. The turret (roof) panel on the utility was now domed & lost its squared-off appearance, increasing interior head room. I could go on, but somebody more familiar with the Ford product should do a re-write.(Terrybebb (talk) 00:32, 10 April 2010 (UTC))

Hi Terry, I have included the above information that you have suggested, but I'll leave it too someone else to add further information if it is known. OSX (talk • contributions) 02:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

XB GT first rear disc brakes ??

You've credited the XB GT with introducing "four-wheel disc brakes for the first time on an Australian-built production vehicle". This is not correct. The XB was released in Nov 73, but the P5 LTD & Landau, which were released in Aug 73 both had four-wheel disc brakes as standard equipment. I know it's only 4 months but credit where credit is due, surely. (Terrybebb (talk) 11:05, 14 April 2010 (UTC))

I always thought it was the A9-X that was the first Aussie car with all-wheel discs?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.112.87.169 (talk) 06:06, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

XY falcon 4x4 utility

was the rarest falcon to my knowledge —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.244.91 (talk) 22:05, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Wasn't it an aftermarket conversion? Greglocock (talk) 07:39, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

No, the 1972 XY 4 x 4 Falcon Ute was a genuine Ford build, albeit using some Dana/Jeep axles & transmission parts. 432 units were produced & there is a full workshop manual on the subject. (Terrybebb (talk) 02:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC))

Thanks Terry. I'll be seeing some of the retired drafties in the pub tonight, I'll ask if any of them worked on it. Greglocock (talk) 00:38, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Falcon 2016

This link has some sourced speculation by people who would be expected to know what is happening.

http://www.goautomedia.com/mellor/enews.nsf/edition/CDE155D23E7E22BACA2577B3001CB0F0/$file/GoAutoNews_552.pdf

I personally don't think wiki should include much about future plans, but I would say that article is a reasonable summary thus far. Greglocock (talk) 01:09, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1079902_new-ford-falcon-to-hit-aussie-market-in-2014

From 2014 the Falcon will look like a Ford Fusion, essentially a rebadged version of the Ford Taurus. The new Falcon will likely be all wheel drive, and probably will not be manufactured in Australia. 124.177.111.106 (talk) 07:47, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Manufacturer

I see somebody is trying to impose the new world order on this. Presumably with the same enthusiasm they have replaced the manufacturer of the Lotus Cars products by whoever ultimately owned the company at the time (Toyota, British Car Auctions GM and Proton, among others at various points)? I shall look for the manufacturer's nameplate on a Falcon tonight. Greglocock (talk) 05:03, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

The VIN plate says Ford Motor Company of Australia Ltd. Since this is the plate that defines legal liability I shall use that in teh article as the manufacturer. Greglocock (talk) 01:22, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Also note entry for 6FP in this link http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Vehicle_Identification_Numbers_(VIN_codes)/World_Manufacturer_Identifier_(WMI) Greglocock (talk) 02:52, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

A sensible move. GTHO (talk) 07:55, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

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Size compared with mundano wagon

"Interestingly, although the Mondeo Wagon’s seat-up capacity trumps its previously mentioned rivals, its maximum volume is the smallest of the lot. Both are also mere drops in the ocean comparative to the old Falcon Wagon, which offered a colossal – and Holden Sportwagon-topping – 1254L seats up and 2584L seats down."

It's also almost 8 inches shorter. Greglocock (talk) 03:02, 27 August 2018 (UTC)