Talk:Dan White

Irrelevant and misleading information

(((The first paragraph summary page says "San Francisco Weekly has referred to White as "perhaps the most hated man in San Francisco's history."[1]"

Why would anyone summarize a person's life with any opinion from any newspaper? For anyone to say that, do they have any authority for making that statement? Would they happen to know ANY other persons who were hated, or is this just another one of those statements that wikipedia is starting to get notorious? Why can't we just be factual?)))

That seems quite factual to me! After all, this man assasinated two of his own city's politicians. Anyone who does that would be hated by most other people in San Francisco, regardless of his political views. There should be no tolerance for that kind of violence. Dale Husband 00:10, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Corruption leads to violence. Hatred also leads to violence, as seen in the riots that happened after this guys conviction. 173.53.105.7 (talk) 20:01, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Unnecessary opinion

I see no reason for this final statement "So possibly the diminished capacity defense was valid, contrary to common perception." and it is certainly not NPOV. The guy felt could no longer have any normal life due to his horrendous acts, so he offed himself. That says absolutely nothing about whether he had diminished capacity years ago. This sentence should be removed.

Discrepancy regarding Whites's replacement

In Dan White's wikipedia entry, Don Horanzy is named as Dan White's replacement on the SF Board of Supervisors, but in Harvey Milk's entry Harry Britt is named as White's replacement. I assume one of these are incorrect. Which one is correct? --Tjdigit 16:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Britt was appointed to replace Milk. I'll check the entry and correct if needed. Otto4711 16:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Clarification?

"following the passage of a gay rights bill that he had publicly opposed." IIRC, the situation was slightly different: he was supporting the repeal of a gay rights bill (repealing the bill was Proposition 6). The gay rights bill had already passed, and he resigned after Proposition 6 got defeated (meaning the gay rights bill stayed in effect). That's my recollection. Anyone know better? -- Kaszeta 21:32, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You're right. I've removed that sentence until further review. omgwtf

Clinical depression?

"In any case, his marriage was not salvageable, almost no one in San Francisco was particularly happy to see him back, and he became increasingly depressed."

This is not a diagnosis of Clinical Depression. Michael David 15:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

The so called twinkie defense's premis was that he suffered from depression. Paul E. Ester 16:09, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

This is the legal defense team's assertion. However, he was never formally diagnosed by a mental health professional. Michael David 16:35, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

What about Dr. Martin Blinder? He examined White and said he was suffering from depression.Paul E. Ester 04:47, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The is no mention of this in the Article. Michael David 11:20, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Stuff to add?

The article is quite informative, but a few things were left out. The most important of these is that the context under which White shot Moscone is made clear, but not that under which he shot Milk. Was it personal, political, homophobic, or spontaneous? I've heard a combination of the first two, although clearly some believed the third. Some context — Milk's famous quote "destroy every closet" quote, the alleged smirk, the personal and political relationships — would be nice. I'd add it, but my knowledge of the situation is limited. Calbaer 01:18, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Milk and White began as political allies. Then, Milk supported building a community center in White's district that he opposed. White turned on Milk after that, voting against him out of spite, then tendered his resignation. He rescinded it, or tried to, but Milk lobbied Moscone not to take him back. 76.90.50.166 (talk) 09:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

We don't seem to have a picture of the man, can this be arranged? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.222.231.14 (talk) 00:29, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

A scene in the film Robocop huh?

I must have watched that movie about a hundred times and I do not recall anything like that. Sounds fake to me

---

This isn't fake and was easy to check.

Excerpt from the Robocop script:

...Ron Miller entered City Hall with a gun.
He's on the second floor holding Mayor Gibson and his staff hostage.
...
Okay, Miller. Don't hurt the mayor.
We'll give you whatever you want.
First, don't fuck with me.
I'm a desperate man.
And second, I want some fresh coffee.
And third, I want a recount.
No matter how it turns out, I want my old job back.
Okay.
And I want a bigger office.

I somewhat agree a flimsy book reference that is not easily verifiable. Nothing online in 2014 to support this was related in any way to Dan white. Really seems like a reach. I'll seek out that book referenced. \--0pen$0urce (talk) 14:01, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Does something about this belong in the article?

The following dialogue is quoted from "DAN WHITE'S LAST CONFESSION" by Mike Weiss. It was published September 18, 1998 in the San Jose Mercury News

"I really lost it that day," White said.

"You can say that again," Falzon answered.

"No. I really lost it. I was on a mission. I wanted four of them."

"Four?" Falzon said.

"Carol Ruth Silver--she was the biggest snake of the bunch.

And Willie Brown," White continued. "He was masterminding the whole thing."

The truth finally came out of Dan White. IT WAS PREMEDITATED MURDER. He went to City Hall that Monday morning in 1978 for the purpose of murdering Mayor Moscone, Supervisor Harvey Milk, and two other liberals, Supervisor Carol Ruth Silver, and California State Assemblyman Willie Brown. White also confessed that he had intended to kill himself, but was unable to do it. Falzon believed what he was told, but saw no sense in revealing the confession at the time. However, I think this new information tends to refute the popular opinion that homophobia was a motive in Milk's murder.

http://thecastro.net/milk/soledadpage.html --BillyTFried 04:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I just researched the articles in question and added the relevent info. Mwelch 08:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Why I've got a feeling that this chap was a 'homosexual-in-denial'. His career through the army-police-firefighter shows a good deal of inclination towards 'uniforms', and then typicaly he becomes a conservative opposed to the gay rights, homicide, suicide, depression etc. Are there any articles exploring this venue? Popytrewq 12:06, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Why, I've got a feeling that you're an idiot.70.230.204.41 (talk) 02:39, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Unless we find a source which meets Wikipedia's reliability requirements which discusses this possibility, putting discussion of it in this or any other WP article would be original research. Many people gravitate towards regimented, structured professions and to conservative social viewpoints for reasons that have nothing to do with sexual orientation. -- 192.250.34.161 13:37, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I haven't seen the movie yet, but Gus van Sant's Milk apparently makes White's sexuality something of an issue. As more analysis of the film comes along, that portrayal of White, at least, could bear some discussion. Radagast (talk) 14:55, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Dan White and Harvey Milk were initially friendly and politically supportive of each other. Dan White also SUPPORTED many gay issues on the Board of Supervisors---until he and Harvey Milk had a falling out. Afterward, Dan White started showing signs of mental instability (paranoia, etc.) as his life became increasingly difficult due to financial problems and the disappointment of his failing political career. I understand why some people would like to simply dismiss him as a homophobe, but the truth is that he seemed to exhibit a great deal of respect for Harvey Milk and seemed fairly supportive of gay rights (until their falling out). Most likely, he was simply mentally ill and the stresses of his life finally resulted in him snapping. Of course, I do not think this excuses him for the murders he committed--it simply provides a better understanding of what happened. Kangaroo1 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

GOP claims

There have been several attempts to list Mr. White as a Republican. Not only are all positions below the statewide/state legislature level officially non-partisan but there is no evidence linking White to the Republican Party. Until this link can be proven with evidence there is no reason to associate him with any party. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.101.103 (talk) 03:23, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Please provide proof of White's GOP ties. The San Francisco Board of Supervisors are officially non-partisan positions. ObsidianRE (talk) 02:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Since the San Francisco positions were supposed to be non-partisan, I removed the reference to Dan White being a Democrat.Dale Husband 00:19, 1 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seeker alpha806 (talk • contribs)

Vietnam vet connection

As noted in the infobox, Dan White served 7 years in the Vietnam War (I just tagged his article with the Vietnam War personnel category). Given what we now know about the adverse psychological impact of war, including PTSD (which has been especially troublesome for Vietnam veterans given the widespread unpopularity of the Vietnam War), White's long stint in Vietnam could potentially have been a much more significant contributing factor in his murderous actions than a penchant for junk food. Has there been any research regarding the possibility that Dan White had undiagnosed PTSD or other negative wartime experiences that may have been a factor in his actions on November 27, 1978? If so, it would be worth noting in the article. SteveChervitzTrutane (talk) 06:41, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

A quick internet research turned up some non-authoritative claims for the PTSD theory:

• Comments on an article in the Huffington Post on 27 November 2008: Could it be that White, a Viet Nam combat veteran, was suffering from post-traumatic stress, a term not readily used and understood in the 70's? Could it be that his inability to cope in a way that psychiatrists would call normal caused him to snap? ... But PTSD does help explain why White lost it so quickly. *Most* homophobes don't murder. Most racists don't murder. Hate & fear does not necessarily lead directly to violence. I think something else is often wrong when people go that far.
• Comment on Patience Mason's PTSD blog by John F. on 1 December 2008 The anecdotal evidence of his mood swings, irrational behavior, personal rigidity, and of putting himself at continual physical risk, make it reasonable to believe that Dan White suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. However, back in 1978 PTSD was still not a recognized medical condition, and as a result wasn’t even considered during testimony of the subsequent trial.
• Review of the film Milk by Brian Danker on 10 December 2008: The fact that a man who was an Irish Catholic, a former Police officer, and a Viet Nam vet who could not, and did not seek help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveChervitzTrutane (talk • contribs) 08:30, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, what the article currently says is that he served seven years in the military, not that he was in Vietnam the whole time. His headstone lists him as Sergeant, so presumably this is the rank at which he was mustered out. But I agree it would be nice to know what his service consisted in, date of promotions, possible medals, number of tours in country. As well, if he began his San Francisco post-war life as a policeman, why did he change to the fire service? Was he fired? Did he find the job bad for his mental stability? Was shift work bad for his family life? Or what? 24.84.99.199 (talk) 20:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

While, this is extremely dated thread, it is still relevant to consider a few items. First, the unpopularity of the war is irrelevant to PTSD. It doesn't trigger the disease, but it could potentially contribute to its progression if not treated properly. The originating question doesn't seem to notice the distinction of cause and contributing factor difference. Second, I don't know of any sources of his duties in Vietnam, it quite literally takes up to ten personnel to support one soldier in combat. A supply clerk is unlikely to experience events that could cause PTSD, whereas a front line soldier is more likely to experience such events, but even then, there are many other factors that confound any potential estimate of such things and it turns into pure, distilled OR to suggest otherwise in such a vacuum. He'd have suffered many episodes that would be deleterious to a political career if he had had PTSD from his military service. Indeed, his service as a law enforcement officer could also have given him experiences sufficient to cause PTSD, but again, that disease is rather inconsistent with a political career. So would duties in firefighting. What matters here is respected sources, psychological evaluations that are publicly available (such as the court testimony). Indeed, what is apparent from the article and sources was that he did indeed suffer from clinical depression and it was not addressed. His change in behavior previous to the murders, his planning of the murders and interestingly enough, his argument before the murders and his later suicide are all consistent with longstanding clinical depression. But, to add that to the article would be OR and any such addition should be removed! Clinical depression has many causes, PTSD is only one of them. The only thing a PTSD "champion" has to offer is that he served in the military during the Vietnam era. With no supporting citations of anything consistent with PTSD to support such a suggestion. Without such supporting citations, one might as well blame the wind direction and ignore the citations of psychologists evaluations.Wzrd1 (talk) 05:12, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Song playing on the stereo

The NY Times article doesn't list anything about the song playing on the stereo when White committed suicide and I can't find any other information about it elsewhere online. Can someone support this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.7.216.197 (talk) 23:33, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

High school education

Dan White did not attend Sacred Heart High School, but rather Riordan High School.

Here is the citation from the Riordan High School Wikipedia entry which lists him as a notable alumnus.

Mike Weiss, Double Play: The San Francisco City Hall Killings (New York: Addison-Wesley, 1984) pp. 49, 54. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.247.227.76 (talk) 20:54, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Article name change

He was known overwhelmingly as Dan White, not Dan James White. the article name should be the best known name if its a person, with the lede indicating varieties, including full name.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 19:11, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Looks like it was fixed. Now, Daniel James White and Dan James White all come to Dan White.Wzrd1 (talk) 05:15, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Fictionalized and Factual Accounts

Highly disagree that the film Milk is fictionalized account, The 2 references do not support the Harvey Milk's assumption in the film that White is a closet Homosexual, the film is very accurate and I couldn't find any sources other than minor productions goofs and continuity. I actually just watched the film again to see if I could validate or refute this very questionable claim and basis to call Milk fiction. Even the details right down to the assignation scene were very accurate to reports of the highly publicized event. I am removing the closet homosexual part as no references support that and moving Milk to Factual section. Such edits and informtaion with bogus references raise serious Neutral Point of View concerns.--0pen$0urce (talk) 13:59, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

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