Talk:Arthur Balfour

Expansion needed

Err, this needs to be expanded beyond what the 1911 Britannica says. Ah, good old Wikipedia. No article at all on Lord Salisbury until just now, and an enormous article on Balfour that only goes up to 1909... sigh. I'm not going to mess with the main article now, just add the list of cabinet members I've been adding to other Prime Minister pages. john 08:28 23 May 2003 (UTC)

This article needs refactoring, it's 39k, I think the bulk of it is from EB11 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mintguy (talk • contribs) 11:55, 14 August 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, it's too long to be useful. I think some of the material could be re-used in discussion of specific controversies, but it doesn't belong here. I'll take it and kick it around some. Mackensen 00:12, 7 February 2004 (UTC)

1911 is always a bit awkward. The detail can be quite wonderful, but, on the other hand, it gets rather oppressive. A good start on this article would be to divide into sections, at least. john 01:11, 7 February 2004 (UTC)

Havoc has been wreaked. Hopefully for the better. Probably the PM section should be expanded a bit, but I think the main idea was to get that discussion of Imperial Preference removed. Mackensen 01:37, 7 February 2004 (UTC)

Bob's your Uncle

Does it mention anywhere that the phrase "Bob's your uncle" is due to him getting the job as Lord Salisbury was his uncle? 80.229.146.148 22:54, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

The bit about this phrase was in there & I added the cite that actually already existed on the wikipedia page for the phrase itself -- a book by Langguth. Was able to find this part in the book via Google Books snippet view. #1lib1ref LibraryVoices (talk) 02:11, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

I'd struggle to produce a source but I'm pretty sure that although widely-believed this is actually a myth and the phrase is actually much older ("all bob" or something). A classic example of the sort of picturesque legend which is often told about the origins of words and phrases, and the sort of thing which, if a source can be found, wikipedia is rather useful for debunking.Paulturtle (talk) 19:11, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

I agree that this is likely a myth. There is no solid evidence that phrase is named after Lord Salisbury, and considerable evidence that it is not. Most notably, the nearly 40-year gap between the time that Robert Cecil appointed his nephew Chief Secretary for Ireland and the first appearance of the phrase in print. If "Bob's your uncle" had been widely used during this time, it would surely have been quoted by a newspaper or magazine. I'm deleting the reference until a reliable citation turns up. --ABehrens (talk) 20:44, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Balfour the Jew hater

Not remarked in article as it stands or in 1917 declaration article as it stands. Eg:

Consider the background to the Balfour Declaration of November 2, 1917, by which the British government committed itself to the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. This was a major coup for the Zionist movement. But it would be wrong to think that it was the product of pro-Jewish sentiment within the British establishment. On the contrary, British support for Zionism was spearheaded by anti-Semites within the civil and foreign service. These people believed that Jews, acting collectively, were manipulating world events from behind the scenes. Consequently, they vastly exaggerated the power and influence of the tiny Zionist movement. Balfour himself took a similar view. Moreover, some years earlier, as Prime Minister, he introduced the Aliens Bill (which became law in 1905), aimed specifically at restricting admission of Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe. He warned Parliament at the time that the Jews "remained a people apart." Source

I dont presume to judge Balfour by the standards of 2006 but it might aid the reader to know about his involvement in the Aliens bill, and to put some flesh on the bones of his involvement in the 1917 declaration. This would be especially helpful considering that the Declaration article hardly mentions Balfour. D Mac Con Uladh 12:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Scotland & Nationalism

Can someone offer information about whether Arthur Balfour had any nationalist feeling and/or pride towards Scotland?

Thank you,

Pinkbraid83 (talk) 00:06, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Balfour was not anti semitic

You cane take indivdual quotes from anyone and claim therre are abigot. In most times he spoke up fore jewish people such as the 1919 speech when he said. "The only qualification I possess is that I have always been greatly interested in the Jewish question, and that in the early years of this century, when anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe was in an active stage, I did my best to support a scheme devised by Mr. Chamberlain, then Colonial Secretary, for creating a Jewish settlement in East Africa, under the British flag. There it was hoped that Jews fleeing from persecution might found a community where, in harmony with their own religion, development on traditional lines might (we thought) peacefully proceed without external interruption, and free from any fears of violence." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coolnewshere (talk • contribs) 21:31, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

New files

Recently the files below were uploaded and they appear to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think they would be a useful addition, please feel free to include any of them. Dcoetzee 05:15, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

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• File:Arthur James Balfour, 1st Earl of Balfour; William Henry Grenfell, Baron Desborough by Lady Ottoline Morrell.jpg

Recognition of statehood

This article will not be complete without mentioning the fact that Balfour was the first to recognize de facto statehood of Latvia. 87.110.109.227 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:42, 15 September 2009 (UTC).

Blunderland

I don't think PeeJay should have reverted that so suddenly without discussion. After all, any familiarity with political cartoons of the period will indicate that Clara is Balfour. I have restored the text and in addition cited Carolyn Sigler's edition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evertype (talk • contribs) 18:59, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

All I was asking for was a reference. Thanks. – PeeJay 22:13, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Not so. You removed new text which had links to two other articles already. You just deleted it. If you had wanted to ASK for a REFERENCE you could have tagged it, or come to the Talk Page. Kindly take the lesson. -- Evertype·✆ 00:43, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

American English

The lead is written in American English: this seems odd for a British Prime Minister. Is it because Encyclopaedia britannica was the earliest version ?--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 06:53, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Education

Born in Scotland and educated as a philosopher....

— This seems an odd construction, since "philosopher" is not usually identified as a profession. A more normal construction would be, "Born in Scotland and educated in philosophy." Sca (talk) 13:35, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Islamophobia

Is it worth mentioning Balfour's Islamophobia? I only say this because, while he may have existed in less-than-tolerant times, he hated Muslims with a passion that was considered extreme by a few of his contemporaries. It may also factor into the Balfour declaration.--DrDagless (talk) 19:33, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Artistic (new section in article)

I have started a new section of this heading, after that on his writings, to mention his proposed, but subsequently rejected, design for the war grave headstone, known as the "Balfour cross" and referred to in Philip Longworth's book "The Unending Vigil. The History of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission" (1985). Any other artistic activities that are known and citeable can be mentioned here.Cloptonson (talk) 20:38, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Arthur Balfour/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Assessed as mid-importance for WikiProject Ireland because he was Chief Secretary for Ireland. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:52, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 20:52, 6 April 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 08:20, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Source of "nothing matters" aphorism

The lede says '...a remark attributed to him: "Nothing matters very much and few things matter at all".'. The Background section says '...he coined the saying "Nothing matters very much and few things matter at all"...'. That's only a slight difference in certainty, but is there any reliable source that definitively attributes this aphorism? David Brooks (talk) 19:48, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Emphasis on Begbie's view of Balfour's personality

Is the considerable emphasis on the writings of this Begbie due mainly to the fact that there are no other similar analyses of Balfour's character? The fact that Begbie further ventured to collaborate on two novels parodying Balfour indicates he greatly disliked him (as the article claims, for political reasons rather than personal, though so vehement are Begbie's insulting comments that one suspects there was more to it), so one wonders to what extent the assertions made regarding Balfour (i.e. his coldness to dependents) are based in fact, rather than Begbie's imagination or invention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.201.11 (talk) 19:37, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

The quote is much too long and rambling. I trimmed it down and balanced it with a more favourable recent interpretation. Rjensen (talk) 19:38, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

role in regard to the suffragette movement

Added a paragraph under 'success and failures section' in that Balfour failed to push or promote the women's suffrage cause in parliament. This is cited from one (good) source but have cited each sentence to ease future edit. Further sources needed to confirm Balfour's own role in this important political impasse during his time in office and beyond?

Kaybeesquared (talk) 21:13, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed your comment. See also mine below on a related issue: Attitude to female suffrage - should paragraph be moved?Cloptonson (talk) 16:36, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

How do you link relatives?

eg. His uncle. Shouldn't this link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gascoyne-Cecil,_3rd_Marquess_of_Salisbury

Ganpati23 (talk) 15:49, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Popular culture - Upstairs, Downstairs

It says that "The character Arthur Balfour plays a supporting, off-screen role in Upstairs, Downstairs, promoting the family patriarch, Richard Bellamy, to the position of Civil Lord of the Admiralty." However my memory is that Richard Bellamy was supposed to become a Civil Lord of the Admiralty in 1915 coalition government headed by Asquith and with Bonar Law as leader of the Conservatives, so Balfour would not be able to promote him (though historically he became First lord of the Admiralty at this Time). I think it is implied that he had served in Balfours 1902-1905 ministry in a minor role and the episode when the coalition is formed mentions him meeting with both Balfour and Bonar Law, but I do not think there is anything to explicitly suggest that Balfour was responsible for his promotion. It might be better to reword this to say he his mentioned as political colleague and superior of Richard Bellamy. Dunarc (talk) 15:00, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Clarification Needed

The lead mentions he originated an argument that human reason is untrustworthy, but the details are not mentioned. Is his early version of the argument from reason meant? This doesn't say human reason isn't trustworthy, but that it isn't so if we take naturalism to be true. It's an argument against naturalism.118.211.178.236 (talk) 08:42, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Racism

Kind of fascinating how the entire article contains no references to his white supremacist racist and anti-semitic views. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:12, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

If you can find some properly referenced material on these issues, you are free, like any other editor, to insert it. See two discussions above about anti-semitism. Sbishop (talk) 12:36, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Football supporter - check team name

I note that in the article he is - with citation to a book - identified as a supporter of Manchester City, but I notice the article, on this talk page, is given as of interest to WikiProject Manchester United (which during most of the time Balfour was MP in Manchester was called Newton Heath F.C.). I have no access to the book, so could someone check the name.Cloptonson (talk) 15:52, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't claim to know either way but see contemporary newspaper reproduced at:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/25773600774

Sbishop (talk) 16:01, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

The newspaper excerpt does not say anything to signify he was a supporter or a board member. As the timing was during the run up to the general election day in January 1906, he may have been invited to 'officially' kick off by virtue of being a local MP (which he was until election day itself!)Cloptonson (talk) 18:54, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree it's no proof - although if he was a Man C supporter I'm not sure whether he would have been keen to accept an invitation to kick off for Man U. But yes, more evidence is needed.Sbishop (talk) 07:21, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

I have been able to check the reference in the article via a snippet view on google Books. It says "Present in 1904 were the Conservative Prime Minister Arthur Balfour, who also happened to be a patron of Manchester City, Kinnaird's old team mate and now Colonial Secretary Alfred Lyttleton who would present the Cup..." DuncanHill (talk) 18:11, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Philip de Laszlo portrait (alongside section Last Years)- wrong year in caption

I see this portrait is captioned as being "c.1931", implying it is a posthumous portrait of Balfour. However, a read of the dates of image creation are a couple of months in the summer of 1908, which is more like the appearance of Balfour that decade than was the case in his old age when he had lost most of his teeth and was reduced possibly to life in a bathchair. Also the list of de Laszlo's portrait subjects indicate he created no portraits of Balfour after 1908 itself. Could someone correct the year to 1908 without (as happened with my own attempt, which I reverted) messing up the template?Cloptonson (talk) 17:15, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, well spotted. I have changed it to 1908. DuncanHill (talk) 18:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for that. I have noticed also that he does in that painting look similar to his other portrait of the same year by John Singer Sargent.Cloptonson (talk) 05:25, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Attitude to female suffrage - should paragraph be moved?

The analytical paragraph on his position on women's suffrage does not in the main belong under the heading of the "achievements and mistakes" of his premiership. Obviously no legislation in that direction was debated or enacted in that period, but what is dated in the paragraph belongs properly to his political career post-premiership when he was in Opposition to the Liberal government that succeeded his. The articles on the sisters Elizabeth Balfour and Constance Bulwer-Lytton both appear to date their active involvements in the cause to that post-premiership period. I am hesitant to cut the paragraph up though as I am not sure the citation given in the first sentence of the paragraph was discussing his premiership, but I have moved the paragraph to the end of the subsection to facilitate further editing.Cloptonson (talk) 05:35, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

"General Election of 1909"?

I query this sentence:

Christabel [Pankhurst] pleaded direct to meet Balfour as Conservative party leader, on their policy manifesto for the General Election of 1909,..

Was a General Election so seriously on the cards for that year that parties were publishing manifestos? I am aware of the two General Elections of 1910 - is it perhaps a misprint for the latter year?Cloptonson (talk) 20:14, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it seems wrong, I would tend to think the January election was meant, as campaigning for that began in 1909. Parties did not issue manifestos as such at the time. Balfour made an "election address" which is what is generally now seen as the manifesto. It would be helpful to see what the source used actually says, and what sources it uses. DuncanHill (talk) 17:25, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD

Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Arthur-James-Balfour-1st-Earl-of-Balfour.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for August 30, 2023. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-08-30. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 20:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Arthur Balfour (1848–1930) was a British statesman and Conservative politician who served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1902 to 1905. During his time as Foreign Secretary in the Lloyd George ministry, he issued the Balfour Declaration in 1917 on behalf of the Cabinet, which supported a "home for the Jewish people" in Mandatory Palestine. During his tenure as prime minister, Balfour passed the Land Purchase (Ireland) Act 1903, which bought most Anglo-Irish land in the UK, as well as the Education Act 1902, which had a major long-term impact in modernising the school system in England and Wales. He secured the Entente Cordiale, an alliance that ended centuries of intermittent conflict between Britain and France and their predecessor states. This photographic portrait of Balfour was taken by George Charles Beresford in 1902.

Photograph credit: George Charles Beresford; restored by MyCatIsAChonk

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