Talk:Imperial Order of the Dragon of Annam

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Distinguished knights and dames

If the Order, according to revisions to the website, ended in 1945, how did all Distinguished knights and dames except for two enter in a period between 2000-2007? The Order still exists today, formerly under Crown Prince Bao Long and now under Bao Vang. At present, the Order is not given out.

Dr. Carl Edwin Lindgren, DEd (UNISA); SEd, MEd (U. of Mississippi); FCP (The College of Teachers, UK); FRSA (London), &c - former Chancellor of the Order. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Royalhistorian (talk • contribs) 03:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Crown Prince Bao Long Head of the Imperial Order of the Dragon of Annam

World Orders of Knighthood and Merit - World Orders of Knighthood and Merit

Prince Bảo Vang of Vietnam currently serves as the Grandmaster of the Order of the Dragon of Annam [1] under Crown Prince Bảo Long of Vietnam. The position is non-political in Vietnamese politics and the role of the royal family under the leadership of Crown Prince Bảo Long is for humanitarian, educational, and cultural endeavors of the people of Vietnam.Bnguyen 12:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to the official site of the Order of Annam http://www.imperialvietnam.net/dragonBAO.html Bao Vang is not in any way affiliated with the Order. So, how could he be the Grand Master? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.32.174.104 (talk) 17:08, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is not an official web-site of the Order, but an immitation of the Order (completely fake) made by an impostor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.238.8.6 (talk) 21:50, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:OrderofDragonofAnnam-1.JPG

Image:OrderofDragonofAnnam-1.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:OrderofDragonofAnnam1.JPG

Image:OrderofDragonofAnnam1.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Wikipedia Rebuttal" at www.themedalhound.com

For those of interest, there is an article on another website claiming to "debunk" this Wikipedia page entitled "Wikipedia Rebuttal" (Internet Archive linK). As the website itself can't be considered a reliable source I would direct people to the lists of sources in the article, but as I do not have access to any of those sources I can't alter or supplement this article based on them. Perhaps someone with a copy of MICHEL de PIERREDON, BaillI Comte "Les Ordres coloniaux de France". Paris 1926 could supplement it. --Donald Trung (talk) 19:39, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Vietnamese name is "Đại Nam Long Tinh", not "Đại Nam Long Tinh Viện"

@Donald Trung: Though the Han tu characters "大南龍星院" (Đại Nam Long Tinh Viện) appears on the certificate, "大南龍星院" is MOST LIKELY the name of its management institute, not this order. In East Asian cultural sphere, sometimes, the name of issuing authority is placed in the header (just like picture 1).

"大南" (Đại Nam) – the official name of Vietnam between 1839 and 1945
"龍" (long) – Dragon
"星" (tinh) – short for "bội tinh", medal

"院" (viện) means institute, or court chamber in Vietnamese and Chinese, for example, viện hàn lâm (院翰林) means academy, viện nguyên lão (院元老) means senate, Viện cơ mật (院機密) means the Privy Council.

I have read these two certificates (picture 2 and picture 3), the word "大南龍星院" only appears in the header; in the main body, the order is mentioned as "四項龍星" (Long tinh of 4th class), "五項龍星" (Long tinh of 5th class). So, "大南龍星院" is MOST LIKELY the name of its management institute, not this order. In the talk page of Vietnamese Wikipedia, @Rungbachduong: shares the same opinion with me.

BTW, in picture 4, should we think the order's name is "中華民國抗戰勝利紀念章證明書"? No, it's totally wrong. Actually, the order's name is "中華民國抗戰勝利紀念章" (The Republic of China's War of Resistance against Japan Victory Memorial Medal), "證明書" means "certificate".--El caballero de los Leones (talk) 16:07, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@唐吉訶德的侍從: (Sancho Panza), Well, I do have to agree that Viện (院) means institute, for example the five (5) branches of the Gouvernement of China are called the Lập pháp viện (立法院), Hành chính viện (行政院), Tư pháp viện (司法院), Khảo thí viện (考試院), and the Giám sát viện (監察院). Though my impression is that Viện (院) is likely a clumsy translation of the French word "Ordre". The comment you referred to on the talk page was that the Vietnamese translation should be "An Nam" and not "Đại Nam", this is something that has to do with what I call "the issue of the two (2) Annam's" in French, the words "Trung Kỳ" (The French protectorate of Annam) and "Đại Nam" (The Nguyễn Dynasty) are both translated as "Annam" in French, with one being the "Protectorat d'Annam" and the other the "Empire d'Annam" (with the latter also including the French protectorate of Tonkin). The user does indeed note that Viện refers to an institute, but that of the receivers, not an issuing office.

The issue of Viện (院) here is less clear, the entry on the Vietnamese-language Wikipedia reads "Các cá nhân được phong thưởng được hợp thành Đại Nam Long Tinh Viện (chữ Nho: 大南龍星院), tương tự như Légion d'honneur của Pháp." (Awarded individuals are incorporated into Đại Nam Long Tinh Viện (Confucian scholar script: 大南龍星院), similar to the French Légion d'honneur.), this indicates to me that Viện (院) in this context likely is a clumsy translation of the word "Ordre" (as in a military order order civic order). But then again, the Vietnamese-language Wikipedia also claims "Đại Nam Long Tinh thay thế cho cơ chế phong thưởng Kim Bội, Ngọc Bội trước đó của triều đình trước đây." which states that it replaced the Kim Bội and Ngọc Bội of the previous courts which is objectively not true, in fact there seems to be a larger push at the Viwiki to deny the continuation of older Imperial Vietnamese practices under French domination such as the fantasy that cash coins were "merely symbolic" but that could just be a weird POV-pushing thing that needs to be addressed in the future. So I don't think that Viện (院) in this context actually refers to an agency like the Cơ mật Viện (機密院).

So the question is, "Should Viện (院) be in the infobox?", I would say "Maybe". There is clearly a distinction bếtween the medal (大南龍星, Đại Nam Long Tinh) and the order (大南龍星院, Đại Nam Long Tinh Viện). --Donald Trung (talk) 18:58, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]