Talk:Apep

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If anyone knows which deities are in the pictures with Apep, that could help improve the captions. I just assume the man in the first photo is a branch off another religion.

disambiguation

There needs to be a disambigous page because the asteroid that will graze planet Earth in 2029 is named Apophis. More info at asteroid deflection strategies and in this article. User:AlMac|^(talk) 06:27, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree (belatedly). Three things with the same functional name are enough for a separate disambiguation page. -- nae'blis 18:03, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Demon/creature

Is there any particular reason why Apep can't be listed as both a legendary creature and a demon? There's not a universal agreement on how to qualify creatures as "demons", but being the embodiment of evil, it would seem reasonable to classify Apep as one.--24.255.171.220 (talk) 16:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

An Egyptian deity (Set) slays the snake-like Apep

The second picture states: "An Egyptian deity (Set) slays the snake-like Apep". What proof is there that the "deity" is Set? The Set animal is an unknown creature, yet the picture features what looks like a feline. What do others think? Lordmick 15:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Quite right - the picture is from the Book of the Dead Ch. 17 and depicts Ra as a cat overcoming Apep as a snake. I have changed the captionApepch7 (talk) 00:07, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Are there any other mentions of Ra taking the form of a cat? I would assume the depicted deity is Bastet, being Ra's daughter, slaying the serpent. This is not my area of expertise, so I will not edit it. Does anyone know if there is a source for either assessment? Emilius V (talk) 07:17, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes but can't give references cos I don't have my books. It is not Bastet it is Ra as a cat slaying Apep.Apepch7 (talk) 11:11, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Apep's battles with Ra

In consulting primary sources about Egyptian mythology I have never encountered the whimsical stories about how Apep's battles are described with Ra. In whatever I have seen or read Ra slays the snake in either his form as a cat or as Montu. Specific citations need to be included to justify this material, as in page numbers and direct quotations.

I've either sourced or deleted the text you tagged. Some of it I've seen before in non-expert sources (like the link between Apep and solar eclipses), but I don't yet know that it has appeared in an Egyptological source, so I left it out. See what you think. A. Parrot (talk) 21:46, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Removed from the article

I removed these passages from the article because they weren't supported by the source at the end of the paragraph they were in. Some of them are certainly or probably true, but not all:

Also, comparable hostile snakes as enemies of the sun god existed under other names (in the Pyramid Texts and Coffin Texts) already before the name Apep occurred. The etymology of his name (ꜥꜣpp) is perhaps to be sought in some west-semitic language where a word root ꜣpp meaning 'to slither' existed. A verb root ꜥꜣpp does at any rate not exist elsewhere in Ancient Egyptian. (It is not to be confused with the verb ꜥpı͗/ꜥpp: 'to fly across the sky, to travel') Apep's name much later came to be falsely connected etymologically in Egyptian with a different root meaning (he who was) spat out; the Romans referred to Apep by this translation of his name. Apophis was a large golden snake known to be miles long.

An IP editor changed "West Semitic" to "South Semitic" shortly before I removed this text, which I consider a particularly dubious claim. The Egyptians were in contact with West Semitic peoples throughout their history, and passages in West Semitic appear even in the Pyramid Texts. Any contact with speakers of South Semitic languages would have been more remote and infrequent. A. Parrot (talk) 23:56, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Clarification needed: symbol of Apep

Was Apep's main symbol just a snake, or in some cases, specifically a cobra? An unregistered user has changed this information in the infobox, but their edit has been reverted. Neither revision cites any sources. I have, for now, annotated Apep's symbol description with the "Citation needed" template. If somebody has reliable sources to back up either claim, please clarify this part of the article's infobox. TucanHolmes (talk) 23:55, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

I've always been unsure how to use the "symbol" parameter, because I don't know if it's supposed to apply to the forms in which a god was depicted. The example at Template:Infobox deity lists "aum" and "modak" as symbols of Ganesha, but not "elephant". That's part of the reason why I removed the parameter.

Regarding the type of snake Apophis was supposed to be, Egyptian Mythology (2004) by Geraldine Pinch suggests that Apophis may have been inspired by the African python (p. 107), though that seems questionable, as it doesn't seem to live in or near Egypt. She also says there was an Egyptian proverb that "One should welcome the uraeus and spit on Apophis" (p. 199), suggesting a distinction between the two. The uraeus was the rearing cobra with spread hood that is so common in Egyptian art, and it seems to have been associated with goddesses and not gods. Male serpent deities don't seem to be portrayed as uraei—e.g., Nehebkau as well as Apophis—and while that doesn't prove that they weren't cobras (because, of course, real cobras aren't always in rearing position), it does tend to suggest it. I think that is enough evidence to cast doubt on the idea that Apophis was a cobra, even if it doesn't prove it. In the absence of certainty, I think we should err on the side of caution and call Apophis a snake, which is certainly true, rather than a cobra. A. Parrot (talk) 01:30, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying! TucanHolmes (talk) 14:56, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: History of Ancient Egypt

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 January 2023 and 17 March 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Transparentv (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Ancientwonder4253, 5734hls.

— Assignment last updated by Johnstoncl (talk) 19:15, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Great Cat of Ra

The form of the cat of Ra has spotting and large ears, which to me resembles the serval. Now, servals aren't native to Egypt, but perhaps they were back when Northern Africa was more humid, so might there be a possibility that this "great cat" is a serval? Anthropophoca (talk) 02:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

WP:FORUM. This is not a place for speculation, keep it to sourced additions to the article. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 11:09, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: 311_History of Ancient Egypt

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2024 and 22 March 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Honkshoo The Bird Man (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Lindsing17.

— Assignment last updated by Johnstoncl (talk) 01:09, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Page Image showing Apep... *not* in danger, feels inconsistent with text... which also isn't exactly accurate?

So, the article contains this quote: Fearing that even the image of Apep could give power to the demon, any rendering would always include another deity to subdue the monster. This is immediately contradicted by the accompanying images-- while there's ofc the one with Cat!Ra cutting its head off with a knife, there's also the one which was opposed by Ramesses I, and the two that show it simply being sliced/stabbed with a bunch of knives wielded by... nobody? Wielded by the scribe/artist, maybe? Clearly, it doesn't need to be a deity to subdue the monster.

On top of which, we also have... right at the top, a depiction of Apep that ISN'T being assaulted by ANY assailant. The caption notes that it's based on the Ramesses I pic, but that one... well, it had Ramesses I to oppose the snake. Granted, this is a religion that isn't practiced anymore, but it still feels... a little irreverent, but more importantly, it feels inaccurate to depict Apep in a way that the Egyptians never would. 𝔏𝔲𝔫𝔞𝔪𝔞𝔫𝔫🌙🌙🌙 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔐𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔬𝔫𝔦𝔢𝔰𝔱 (talk) 19:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)